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	<title>Comments on: Thursday Throwdown: How RWA Might Win the Battle, but Lose the War</title>
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	<link>http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/2009/11/19/thursday-throwdown-how-rwa-might-win-the-battle-but-lose-the-war/</link>
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		<title>By: Evangeline</title>
		<link>http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/2009/11/19/thursday-throwdown-how-rwa-might-win-the-battle-but-lose-the-war/comment-page-1/#comment-808</link>
		<dc:creator>Evangeline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:32:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/?p=923#comment-808</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The only way RWA or other writers organizations can affect publisher behavior is if their members start boycotting those publishers that don’t comply. In DROVES, to the point where the publisher can’t find enough good manuscripts to publish and keep their business going. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Heh, how is that going to work out for writers who aren&#039;t a member of the RWA, for writers who don&#039;t care about Harlequin Horizons and the impact its existence could/will have on publishing, and mostly, for already published writers? If there was a boycott, I foresee a shrinkage of titles being released each month--which, incidentally, a number of readers online have wished to happen.

I for one see the RWA as being at fault if and if other publishers begin to acquire vanity presses and direct their rejectees to them. Not only has the RWA resisted anything but the traditional publishing model, but they have, in a sense, coddled and worshiped print publishers. If all publishers lose RWA recognition, so be it: the organization should be for &lt;i&gt;writers&lt;/i&gt; (craft, promo, industry tips, etc) rather than focused so heavily around publishers and being traditionally published. 

For years I resisted joining the RWA because I felt I could get what they offer to their members for free. I joined this past year to see if I was talking out of my neck and guess what? I was right. None of the RWA loops I belong to have given me 1/8th as much support and knowledge as the free loops and message boards I frequented for years. For the most part, belonging has become rote: this isn&#039;t 1997 where a writer could only find publishing information from a book, and being published was a dazzling, starry-eyed dream. E-publishing and the internet killed that fantasy. Nowadays, agents and editors are blogging, tweeting, and using facebook. Other authors are right there, willing to answer reasonable questions. 

And honestly, the concept of &quot;money flows TO the author&quot; can be placed on attending conferences and entering into contests. Winning is an ego stroke, and meeting an editor or agent in person can be effective for quick responses, but none of that led to a guaranteed contract ten years ago, and none of it is guaranteed today--after all, mystery, sf/f, historical fiction, etc writers get published everyday without the &quot;perks&quot; offered by the RWA--why should romance writers be so dogmatic about the path to publication simply because &quot;that&#039;s how it&#039;s always been&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The only way RWA or other writers organizations can affect publisher behavior is if their members start boycotting those publishers that don’t comply. In DROVES, to the point where the publisher can’t find enough good manuscripts to publish and keep their business going. </p></blockquote>
<p>Heh, how is that going to work out for writers who aren&#8217;t a member of the RWA, for writers who don&#8217;t care about Harlequin Horizons and the impact its existence could/will have on publishing, and mostly, for already published writers? If there was a boycott, I foresee a shrinkage of titles being released each month&#8211;which, incidentally, a number of readers online have wished to happen.</p>
<p>I for one see the RWA as being at fault if and if other publishers begin to acquire vanity presses and direct their rejectees to them. Not only has the RWA resisted anything but the traditional publishing model, but they have, in a sense, coddled and worshiped print publishers. If all publishers lose RWA recognition, so be it: the organization should be for <i>writers</i> (craft, promo, industry tips, etc) rather than focused so heavily around publishers and being traditionally published. </p>
<p>For years I resisted joining the RWA because I felt I could get what they offer to their members for free. I joined this past year to see if I was talking out of my neck and guess what? I was right. None of the RWA loops I belong to have given me 1/8th as much support and knowledge as the free loops and message boards I frequented for years. For the most part, belonging has become rote: this isn&#8217;t 1997 where a writer could only find publishing information from a book, and being published was a dazzling, starry-eyed dream. E-publishing and the internet killed that fantasy. Nowadays, agents and editors are blogging, tweeting, and using facebook. Other authors are right there, willing to answer reasonable questions. </p>
<p>And honestly, the concept of &#8220;money flows TO the author&#8221; can be placed on attending conferences and entering into contests. Winning is an ego stroke, and meeting an editor or agent in person can be effective for quick responses, but none of that led to a guaranteed contract ten years ago, and none of it is guaranteed today&#8211;after all, mystery, sf/f, historical fiction, etc writers get published everyday without the &#8220;perks&#8221; offered by the RWA&#8211;why should romance writers be so dogmatic about the path to publication simply because &#8220;that&#8217;s how it&#8217;s always been&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Jackie Barbosa</title>
		<link>http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/2009/11/19/thursday-throwdown-how-rwa-might-win-the-battle-but-lose-the-war/comment-page-1/#comment-801</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackie Barbosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/?p=923#comment-801</guid>
		<description>Arianna, thanks for the clarification on Authonomy. It&#039;s been bandied about as the name of HC&#039;s selfpublishing arm, so I took that as gospel :). My bad.

Laura, I truly hope you&#039;re right. What I guess I&#039;m saying is if the fall-out from this isn&#039;t REALLY BAD for Harlequin in some fundamental way that affects the bottom line, there go the rest of the publishers down the same road. Because why not? And if none of the publishers care about RWA&#039;s goodwill (or the goodwill of other author organizations) because they don&#039;t think it matters, well...we&#039;re all in a heap of trouble.

I hope it doesn&#039;t turn out that way. But I can see the writing on the wall if it does...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arianna, thanks for the clarification on Authonomy. It&#8217;s been bandied about as the name of HC&#8217;s selfpublishing arm, so I took that as gospel <img src='http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> . My bad.</p>
<p>Laura, I truly hope you&#8217;re right. What I guess I&#8217;m saying is if the fall-out from this isn&#8217;t REALLY BAD for Harlequin in some fundamental way that affects the bottom line, there go the rest of the publishers down the same road. Because why not? And if none of the publishers care about RWA&#8217;s goodwill (or the goodwill of other author organizations) because they don&#8217;t think it matters, well&#8230;we&#8217;re all in a heap of trouble.</p>
<p>I hope it doesn&#8217;t turn out that way. But I can see the writing on the wall if it does&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Laura Kinsale</title>
		<link>http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/2009/11/19/thursday-throwdown-how-rwa-might-win-the-battle-but-lose-the-war/comment-page-1/#comment-800</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura Kinsale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:12:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/?p=923#comment-800</guid>
		<description>&quot;I don’t think, in the end, that Harlequin cares that it has lost its RWA recognition. I’m 99.9% sure that the honchos who made the decision to go into partnership with ASI and feature the Harlequin name and brand prominently in that effort KNEW they’d lose their recognition. And they did it anyway, because, in the final analysis, RWA’s stamp of approval was worth less to them than the potential revenue they can generate through Harlequin Horizons.&quot;

This is a good question, but I want to amplify a bit on RWA&#039;s significance to Harlequin.  I&#039;ll quote myself, from over at jackie barbosa&#039;s blog:

Many think Harlequin could care less about RWA.  But realize that RWA is not just romance writers.  It&#039;s a huge, organized base of very active and vocal romance readers and buyers.  

Just think...if you are a corporation, and every year you get to sell yourself directly to several thousand of your best customers, the ones right at the heart of your market, the ones who have direct pipelines to a big percentage of your customer base, and you get to do this in person, with a high profile and great good will--that&#039;s an extremely valuable commodity they have just lost.

It will be interesting to see if they recognize this themselves.

I don&#039;t think Harlequin had any clue whatsoever that they&#039;d even hear a peep about this.  The initial reaction they got, from the non-author bloggers, was positive.  

Harlequin and RWA have gone head to head before on contractual issues.  No question that Harlequin has the power of a monopolistic hold on series publishing.  But RWA has a more -- &quot;zen-like&quot; shall we say, power of its own.  The power of influence and education.  RWA is even now directly impacting the HH bottom line, because a lot of aspiring authors all over the web, not just romance authors, are learning about what a scam this is.  9 out of 10 headlines are &quot;Harlequin Becomes Vanity Publisher.&quot;  RWA is looking like Samson standing up to Goliath, very good.  Harlequin looks very bad.

Does this impact their bottom line?  Yeah.  To function at their best, they need their authors, they need new authors, they need good will in the community.  RWA represents a significant portion of that community.  

IF they truly don&#039;t care about this segment of their consumer base, then truly all IS lost, because it means that they can&#039;t make money selling books anymore.  They have to make money selling the product of publishing to authors.

I don&#039;t think things are that bad.  I think Harlequin got a call from the vanity pub, saying hey, wanna try this?  And they didn&#039;t think it through, and said, hey, ok.

Agents have gotten solicitations forever from vanity publishers, offering money for referrals.  It&#039;s always been considered shady exploitation, because it is.  Harlequin was either naive and didn&#039;t know this or think about it, or they thought they could pull off the &quot;shiny new self-publishing option&quot; thing.

They lost that bet.  

We&#039;ll see.  I&#039;m not sanguine, but I&#039;m not as worried as you are.  RWA is not dependent on Harlequin, or even on Harlequin&#039;s published authors.  It&#039;s dependent on doing its job of educating and promoting the interests of romance authors.  

It&#039;s a showdown all right.  I&#039;m glad RWA is there, and they sure brought me and a few other members back into to support them with enthusiasm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I don’t think, in the end, that Harlequin cares that it has lost its RWA recognition. I’m 99.9% sure that the honchos who made the decision to go into partnership with ASI and feature the Harlequin name and brand prominently in that effort KNEW they’d lose their recognition. And they did it anyway, because, in the final analysis, RWA’s stamp of approval was worth less to them than the potential revenue they can generate through Harlequin Horizons.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is a good question, but I want to amplify a bit on RWA&#8217;s significance to Harlequin.  I&#8217;ll quote myself, from over at jackie barbosa&#8217;s blog:</p>
<p>Many think Harlequin could care less about RWA.  But realize that RWA is not just romance writers.  It&#8217;s a huge, organized base of very active and vocal romance readers and buyers.  </p>
<p>Just think&#8230;if you are a corporation, and every year you get to sell yourself directly to several thousand of your best customers, the ones right at the heart of your market, the ones who have direct pipelines to a big percentage of your customer base, and you get to do this in person, with a high profile and great good will&#8211;that&#8217;s an extremely valuable commodity they have just lost.</p>
<p>It will be interesting to see if they recognize this themselves.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Harlequin had any clue whatsoever that they&#8217;d even hear a peep about this.  The initial reaction they got, from the non-author bloggers, was positive.  </p>
<p>Harlequin and RWA have gone head to head before on contractual issues.  No question that Harlequin has the power of a monopolistic hold on series publishing.  But RWA has a more &#8212; &#8220;zen-like&#8221; shall we say, power of its own.  The power of influence and education.  RWA is even now directly impacting the HH bottom line, because a lot of aspiring authors all over the web, not just romance authors, are learning about what a scam this is.  9 out of 10 headlines are &#8220;Harlequin Becomes Vanity Publisher.&#8221;  RWA is looking like Samson standing up to Goliath, very good.  Harlequin looks very bad.</p>
<p>Does this impact their bottom line?  Yeah.  To function at their best, they need their authors, they need new authors, they need good will in the community.  RWA represents a significant portion of that community.  </p>
<p>IF they truly don&#8217;t care about this segment of their consumer base, then truly all IS lost, because it means that they can&#8217;t make money selling books anymore.  They have to make money selling the product of publishing to authors.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think things are that bad.  I think Harlequin got a call from the vanity pub, saying hey, wanna try this?  And they didn&#8217;t think it through, and said, hey, ok.</p>
<p>Agents have gotten solicitations forever from vanity publishers, offering money for referrals.  It&#8217;s always been considered shady exploitation, because it is.  Harlequin was either naive and didn&#8217;t know this or think about it, or they thought they could pull off the &#8220;shiny new self-publishing option&#8221; thing.</p>
<p>They lost that bet.  </p>
<p>We&#8217;ll see.  I&#8217;m not sanguine, but I&#8217;m not as worried as you are.  RWA is not dependent on Harlequin, or even on Harlequin&#8217;s published authors.  It&#8217;s dependent on doing its job of educating and promoting the interests of romance authors.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a showdown all right.  I&#8217;m glad RWA is there, and they sure brought me and a few other members back into to support them with enthusiasm.</p>
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		<title>By: Arianna Skye</title>
		<link>http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/2009/11/19/thursday-throwdown-how-rwa-might-win-the-battle-but-lose-the-war/comment-page-1/#comment-799</link>
		<dc:creator>Arianna Skye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/?p=923#comment-799</guid>
		<description>FYI:

Authonomy, itself, is not a self-publishing house. It is a website where people can post their work and if enough people back their book, they have the opportunity to end up on a Harper Collins editor&#039;s desk. Some of the books have actually sold. It&#039;s very few and far between, though. 

What authonomy is doing is soliciting their users to get published using createspace (which is actually owned by Amazon). The minute I got the email from them regarding the &quot;opportunity,&quot; I wrinkled my nose and stopped visiting Authonomy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI:</p>
<p>Authonomy, itself, is not a self-publishing house. It is a website where people can post their work and if enough people back their book, they have the opportunity to end up on a Harper Collins editor&#8217;s desk. Some of the books have actually sold. It&#8217;s very few and far between, though. </p>
<p>What authonomy is doing is soliciting their users to get published using createspace (which is actually owned by Amazon). The minute I got the email from them regarding the &#8220;opportunity,&#8221; I wrinkled my nose and stopped visiting Authonomy.</p>
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