<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Trash Talking Tuesday: Publishers Aren&#8217;t Always Wrong</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/2010/01/26/trash-talking-tuesday-publishers-arent-always-wrong/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/2010/01/26/trash-talking-tuesday-publishers-arent-always-wrong/</link>
	<description>History Made Hot</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:22:49 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Charles Frenzel</title>
		<link>http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/2010/01/26/trash-talking-tuesday-publishers-arent-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-940</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Frenzel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/?p=1131#comment-940</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve read all too many books by new authors who picked their own titles using some mysterious algorithm that fails to relate in any way to the content, either factually or emotionally. It&#039;s like the poet reading their own poetry--usually a very bad choice of reader.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve read all too many books by new authors who picked their own titles using some mysterious algorithm that fails to relate in any way to the content, either factually or emotionally. It&#8217;s like the poet reading their own poetry&#8211;usually a very bad choice of reader.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jackie Barbosa</title>
		<link>http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/2010/01/26/trash-talking-tuesday-publishers-arent-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-924</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackie Barbosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 23:25:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/?p=1131#comment-924</guid>
		<description>Hi Laura. Thanks for dropping by!

I agree with you 100% regarding contract negotiations. If an author is dead-set on having approval over packaging, then that&#039;s something to be hammered out at the time the deal is being inked, not to be kvetched about afterward because things didn&#039;t turn out to your liking. 

The same is true, to be honest, about the size of the advance. If an author feels what&#039;s being offered by the publisher doesn&#039;t provide her with fair compensation for the rights to her book and to allow her to take the role in promoting it that her publisher is expecting, then honestly, it&#039;s the author&#039;s job to either negotiate a larger sum or (gulp) walk away.

Walking away from an offer of publication is something few authors (especially if they are just breaking into the market) are going to be willing to do, though, whether it&#039;s over the size of the advance or veto power over packaging or what-have-you. The publisher has more cards than the author, to be frank, because they have many good books to choose from. Unless you&#039;re lucky enough to have your book go to auction or be bought in a pre-empt, most authors want the publisher a LOT more than the publisher wants the author. And even in an auction or pre-empt, there are probably some things a publisher won&#039;t concede, even if it means losing the book/author. It&#039;s pretty hard for authors to know what those non-negotiables are or when to concede vs walk away.

But yes, once the deal is ironed out and signed, it&#039;s too late. Oh sure, you can bellyache all you want, but in the final analysis, it&#039;s probably not going to do much good.l</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Laura. Thanks for dropping by!</p>
<p>I agree with you 100% regarding contract negotiations. If an author is dead-set on having approval over packaging, then that&#8217;s something to be hammered out at the time the deal is being inked, not to be kvetched about afterward because things didn&#8217;t turn out to your liking. </p>
<p>The same is true, to be honest, about the size of the advance. If an author feels what&#8217;s being offered by the publisher doesn&#8217;t provide her with fair compensation for the rights to her book and to allow her to take the role in promoting it that her publisher is expecting, then honestly, it&#8217;s the author&#8217;s job to either negotiate a larger sum or (gulp) walk away.</p>
<p>Walking away from an offer of publication is something few authors (especially if they are just breaking into the market) are going to be willing to do, though, whether it&#8217;s over the size of the advance or veto power over packaging or what-have-you. The publisher has more cards than the author, to be frank, because they have many good books to choose from. Unless you&#8217;re lucky enough to have your book go to auction or be bought in a pre-empt, most authors want the publisher a LOT more than the publisher wants the author. And even in an auction or pre-empt, there are probably some things a publisher won&#8217;t concede, even if it means losing the book/author. It&#8217;s pretty hard for authors to know what those non-negotiables are or when to concede vs walk away.</p>
<p>But yes, once the deal is ironed out and signed, it&#8217;s too late. Oh sure, you can bellyache all you want, but in the final analysis, it&#8217;s probably not going to do much good.l</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Laura Kinsale</title>
		<link>http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/2010/01/26/trash-talking-tuesday-publishers-arent-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-923</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura Kinsale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/?p=1131#comment-923</guid>
		<description>What tends to be overlooked (from all sides) is that publishing is a contractual agreement.  A fairly one-sided one, for most authors, but the bottom line is, the time to get cover approval/consultation is during the contract negotiation.  And the way to get it is to be ready and able to walk.

Most authors aren&#039;t ready to do that, and the publishers know it.  Barry Eisler&#039;s letter is just closing the barn door long after the horse has bolted.

I don&#039;t think it&#039;s as difficult to get cover approval as some of the commenters on the DA thread suggested (altho probably impossible for a category line, obviously.)  First thing you&#039;d have to do is make it clear you want it UP FRONT, not after you&#039;ve accepted the offer.  

This goes back to my old old article about what to do when the editor calls and makes an offer.  DON&quot;T ACCEPT.  Write down the details and say you&#039;ll call back.

Then take the time to figure out what&#039;s important to you and what your sticking points are.  Talk this over with your agent, if you have one.  The agent may or may not be on your side, which should tell you something, either about the agent or the sticking point.  Then bring those points into the negotation BEFORE the contract is written.

But even if you ask for cover approval, and don&#039;t get it, and decide to not to walk, every author who knows enough to ask, and when to ask, helps make a little chip in the wall for the next time.  

I tend to think covers and titles might as well be voodoo, they are so unpredictable.  I would object over something egregious about the cover, and I&#039;ve certainly been disappointed in some covers I&#039;ve had--but others like my Fabio ones, which I thought were a bit silly, really helped make my career.

It&#039;s like TV ads, some are hits, some are flops, there&#039;s an art and a science to it.   I sure don&#039;t know what it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What tends to be overlooked (from all sides) is that publishing is a contractual agreement.  A fairly one-sided one, for most authors, but the bottom line is, the time to get cover approval/consultation is during the contract negotiation.  And the way to get it is to be ready and able to walk.</p>
<p>Most authors aren&#8217;t ready to do that, and the publishers know it.  Barry Eisler&#8217;s letter is just closing the barn door long after the horse has bolted.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s as difficult to get cover approval as some of the commenters on the DA thread suggested (altho probably impossible for a category line, obviously.)  First thing you&#8217;d have to do is make it clear you want it UP FRONT, not after you&#8217;ve accepted the offer.  </p>
<p>This goes back to my old old article about what to do when the editor calls and makes an offer.  DON&#8221;T ACCEPT.  Write down the details and say you&#8217;ll call back.</p>
<p>Then take the time to figure out what&#8217;s important to you and what your sticking points are.  Talk this over with your agent, if you have one.  The agent may or may not be on your side, which should tell you something, either about the agent or the sticking point.  Then bring those points into the negotation BEFORE the contract is written.</p>
<p>But even if you ask for cover approval, and don&#8217;t get it, and decide to not to walk, every author who knows enough to ask, and when to ask, helps make a little chip in the wall for the next time.  </p>
<p>I tend to think covers and titles might as well be voodoo, they are so unpredictable.  I would object over something egregious about the cover, and I&#8217;ve certainly been disappointed in some covers I&#8217;ve had&#8211;but others like my Fabio ones, which I thought were a bit silly, really helped make my career.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s like TV ads, some are hits, some are flops, there&#8217;s an art and a science to it.   I sure don&#8217;t know what it is.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jackie Barbosa</title>
		<link>http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/2010/01/26/trash-talking-tuesday-publishers-arent-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-922</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackie Barbosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 21:29:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/?p=1131#comment-922</guid>
		<description>Jody, I completely understand why authors want to sell to NY, since I want to do so again myself. But if I really thought NY publishers were generally clueless and incapable of selling and marketing my work, I&#039;d have to start thinking about other alternatives. I mean, realistically, if you feel that publishers don&#039;t know what they&#039;re doing when it comes to packaging books to help them sell, you have to believe you have a BETTER plan (or could devise one). In which case, why NOT go the indie route?

Termagent, I agree with you about advances and the amount of promotion we&#039;re being expected to do nowadays being out of sync with each other in a lot of respects. But at least in my case, I blame my total lack of marketing/promotional savvy at least partly on the fact that I was too shy/too embarrassed to contact my publisher and ASK what they thought I could do that would be both effective and relatively inexpensive. Now, it&#039;s entirely possible they would have blown me off and/or had no advice to give me, but since I never even attempted, we&#039;ll never know. So now I know, should there ever be a next time, not to be so shy and retiring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jody, I completely understand why authors want to sell to NY, since I want to do so again myself. But if I really thought NY publishers were generally clueless and incapable of selling and marketing my work, I&#8217;d have to start thinking about other alternatives. I mean, realistically, if you feel that publishers don&#8217;t know what they&#8217;re doing when it comes to packaging books to help them sell, you have to believe you have a BETTER plan (or could devise one). In which case, why NOT go the indie route?</p>
<p>Termagent, I agree with you about advances and the amount of promotion we&#8217;re being expected to do nowadays being out of sync with each other in a lot of respects. But at least in my case, I blame my total lack of marketing/promotional savvy at least partly on the fact that I was too shy/too embarrassed to contact my publisher and ASK what they thought I could do that would be both effective and relatively inexpensive. Now, it&#8217;s entirely possible they would have blown me off and/or had no advice to give me, but since I never even attempted, we&#8217;ll never know. So now I know, should there ever be a next time, not to be so shy and retiring.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Termagant 2</title>
		<link>http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/2010/01/26/trash-talking-tuesday-publishers-arent-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-921</link>
		<dc:creator>Termagant 2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/?p=1131#comment-921</guid>
		<description>I think some of the disconnect comes when the author must do so much more than write the books. In recent years, we&#039;ve been asked to &quot;partner&quot; with the publishers as far as promo, publicity, marketing, etc., often with little or no background in such activities. Some publishers pay small or no advances to help with such things. But we&#039;re considered co-workers in the book&#039;s success.

That&#039;s a double standard, in my opinion -- for if we&#039;re partners, where&#039;s the give-and-take about &quot;this cover really doesn&#039;t work for me and I cannot see how to market it&quot;? Instead, we&#039;re told &quot;the cover is what it is&quot;, and there&#039;s no sense of partnership in one party dictating to another.

Were the advances more palatable, maybe I wouldn&#039;t feel this way, LOL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think some of the disconnect comes when the author must do so much more than write the books. In recent years, we&#8217;ve been asked to &#8220;partner&#8221; with the publishers as far as promo, publicity, marketing, etc., often with little or no background in such activities. Some publishers pay small or no advances to help with such things. But we&#8217;re considered co-workers in the book&#8217;s success.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a double standard, in my opinion &#8212; for if we&#8217;re partners, where&#8217;s the give-and-take about &#8220;this cover really doesn&#8217;t work for me and I cannot see how to market it&#8221;? Instead, we&#8217;re told &#8220;the cover is what it is&#8221;, and there&#8217;s no sense of partnership in one party dictating to another.</p>
<p>Were the advances more palatable, maybe I wouldn&#8217;t feel this way, LOL.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jody W.</title>
		<link>http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/2010/01/26/trash-talking-tuesday-publishers-arent-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-920</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 15:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/?p=1131#comment-920</guid>
		<description>Jackie, in the comments you asked why writers seem to have such issues with NY pubs but still strive to publish with them. IMO, it&#039;s because so many of us are not cut out for indie, self, small, etc publishing! The self-marketing aspect required to be a success outside NY is a whole different skill-set. I for one don&#039;t have it and I swear I&#039;m going backwards insofar as developing it. Just like some people CANNOT write a book, CANNOT make small talk, CANNOT sing, CANNOT win races, some people CANNOT sell and market :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jackie, in the comments you asked why writers seem to have such issues with NY pubs but still strive to publish with them. IMO, it&#8217;s because so many of us are not cut out for indie, self, small, etc publishing! The self-marketing aspect required to be a success outside NY is a whole different skill-set. I for one don&#8217;t have it and I swear I&#8217;m going backwards insofar as developing it. Just like some people CANNOT write a book, CANNOT make small talk, CANNOT sing, CANNOT win races, some people CANNOT sell and market <img src='http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Zoe Winters</title>
		<link>http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/2010/01/26/trash-talking-tuesday-publishers-arent-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-919</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoe Winters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 02:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/?p=1131#comment-919</guid>
		<description>Well that last part we agree on. I just think some of the things they do are goofy. Though it&#039;s not fair to paint every publisher with the same brush. Except for the Harlequin Horizons debacle, I had a lot of respect for Harlequin as a publisher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well that last part we agree on. I just think some of the things they do are goofy. Though it&#8217;s not fair to paint every publisher with the same brush. Except for the Harlequin Horizons debacle, I had a lot of respect for Harlequin as a publisher.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jackie Barbosa</title>
		<link>http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/2010/01/26/trash-talking-tuesday-publishers-arent-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-918</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackie Barbosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 02:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/?p=1131#comment-918</guid>
		<description>See, I&#039;m not sure what they say that you find irrational. I&#039;m speaking purely from my experience as an author working with and submitting to publishers. And while I may not LIKE all the decisions any publisher makes vis-a-vis my work (I particularly do not like when they reject it, lol), I understand that they aren&#039;t deciding these things in a vacuum. They have access to a lot of data I don&#039;t, including how similar books have sold in the past. They&#039;re not just rejecting (or accepting) books without ANY clue as to WHY. They know.

Again, they&#039;re not always right in their decisions. I will claim to my dying breath that publishers who passed on my books were just plain fools, lol. But I also recognize that publishers are not in business to give struggling artists a break.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, I&#8217;m not sure what they say that you find irrational. I&#8217;m speaking purely from my experience as an author working with and submitting to publishers. And while I may not LIKE all the decisions any publisher makes vis-a-vis my work (I particularly do not like when they reject it, lol), I understand that they aren&#8217;t deciding these things in a vacuum. They have access to a lot of data I don&#8217;t, including how similar books have sold in the past. They&#8217;re not just rejecting (or accepting) books without ANY clue as to WHY. They know.</p>
<p>Again, they&#8217;re not always right in their decisions. I will claim to my dying breath that publishers who passed on my books were just plain fools, lol. But I also recognize that publishers are not in business to give struggling artists a break.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Zoe Winters</title>
		<link>http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/2010/01/26/trash-talking-tuesday-publishers-arent-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-917</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoe Winters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 02:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/?p=1131#comment-917</guid>
		<description>LOL that is where we differ. I do think they&#039;re pretty irrational.  And if they aren&#039;t... then they should stop letting the irrational ones take the podium, because my view of &quot;irrational publishers&quot; is based on some of the inane stuff they&#039;ve said in interviews with major publications. If publishing isn&#039;t a horse race, then they should stop telling us it is.  If they don&#039;t want to be seen this way, why do they allow so many people like that speak for them without any kind of formal reply or rebuttle? That&#039;s what baffles me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL that is where we differ. I do think they&#8217;re pretty irrational.  And if they aren&#8217;t&#8230; then they should stop letting the irrational ones take the podium, because my view of &#8220;irrational publishers&#8221; is based on some of the inane stuff they&#8217;ve said in interviews with major publications. If publishing isn&#8217;t a horse race, then they should stop telling us it is.  If they don&#8217;t want to be seen this way, why do they allow so many people like that speak for them without any kind of formal reply or rebuttle? That&#8217;s what baffles me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jackie Barbosa</title>
		<link>http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/2010/01/26/trash-talking-tuesday-publishers-arent-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-916</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackie Barbosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 02:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackiebarbosa.com/?p=1131#comment-916</guid>
		<description>I never sense publishers are particularly shocked by what hits the NYT and what doesn&#039;t. With some exceptions (e.g., Her Fearful Symmetry).

I don&#039;t think I have great awe of traditional publishers. I just think too often, their expertise is undervalued and underappreciated. That isn&#039;t to say they are always right. As I said at the beginning, I&#039;m not intending to be the rah-rah cheerleader for major publishing houses. But I do have a problem with the mentality that says they are totally irrational entities that make decisions without any solid data or reliance on previous experience. No, they aren&#039;t infallible. But who is?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never sense publishers are particularly shocked by what hits the NYT and what doesn&#8217;t. With some exceptions (e.g., Her Fearful Symmetry).</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think I have great awe of traditional publishers. I just think too often, their expertise is undervalued and underappreciated. That isn&#8217;t to say they are always right. As I said at the beginning, I&#8217;m not intending to be the rah-rah cheerleader for major publishing houses. But I do have a problem with the mentality that says they are totally irrational entities that make decisions without any solid data or reliance on previous experience. No, they aren&#8217;t infallible. But who is?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

